Finding Structure And Flow In Your Creative Work, With Matthew Turner.
Be Brilliant in Your Business Podcast, Episode 35
“Life is a series of stories. You don't necessarily know where you want the story to go. You don't have all the details, and that gives you the freedom to dream as big or as far ahead as you want.” - Matthew Turner
Hey Maverick! If you are a creative business owner, I think you’ll really enjoy today’s episode.
My guest is Matthew Turner, an author and ghostwriter. He gives us a look into his creative world, talking about his writing process, and what can throw him off of his goals (and how he handles it).
Matthew also talks about how he plans big and small goals for his business, which is something that he finds important for maintaining his mojo and keeping creative momentum.
This is so fascinating because a lot of creative business owners have a desire to plan for big-picture goals, but stop themselves short because they are afraid it will force them out of their creative flow. And Matthew shares that, in fact, having BOTH structure AND flow built into your business is essential.
Matthew also shares a peek into his latest book Beyond The Pale: A Fable about ESCAPING the HUSTLE and FINDING YOURSELF - Now available in bookstores!
Listen or scroll down to read the transcript from this conversation.
If you enjoy the Be Brilliant In Your Business Podcast, please subscribe and review us on iTunes, Spotify or Audible! Your words mean so much.
Episode Links:
Read Matthew’s book Beyond The Pale: A Fable about ESCAPING the HUSTLE and FINDING YOURSELF.
Read Matthew’s book The Successful Mistake (FUN FACT - I was interviewed in this book!)
Check out http://turndog.co/
Connect with Matthew Turner on Instagram
Stop putting your best ideas on the backburner! Get the ultimate guide to getting things done with 30 Day Done.
Follow me @linsibrownson on Instagram for business and mindset tips.
Connect with Be Brilliant Podcast @bebrilliantpodcast on Instagram.
Want to work with me? View coaching options you might love.
Support the show with a review in iTunes, Audible, or Spotify!
Credits: Sound production by hearnoevilmedia.com
Episode 35 Transcript
Linsi Brownson 0:01
Hi, Matthew, I'm really looking forward to this conversation with you and talking about creativity and inspiration and all the things that I know you love too. We've had lots of conversations about this stuff. So I'm excited to have you on, thanks for being here.
Matthew Turner 0:26
Oh, it's an absolute pleasure. Yeah, I'm absolutely stoked to be speaking to you and getting to share some stories, always great jumping on the call with you.
Linsi Brownson 0:35
completely agree. So if you would start us off by telling our listeners what it is that you are up to in the world?
Matthew Turner 0:45
Well, I suppose my main personal project right now is my latest book, I do split my time between client work where for the lack of a better word, I'm a ghostwriter, content strategist for over entrepreneurs who are trying to get their get their zone of genius out into the world. But maybe writing isn't a gig, or they like to write, but they don't have time. On a personal side of things, you know, my personal brands, I am a writer of books. And that's what I'm working on right now. It's a parable.
So for the first time ever, I'm bringing together my passions for both fiction and nonfiction, into a business centric novel from the my entrepreneur. And it's really great to terra cotta, starting see the end of the first draft, it's getting close. And from the the real word again, because I'm a real writing is in the rewriting. And yeah, I'm excited, there's going to be entire experience that goes beyond this book. So I've doubled over the years with events and coaching and programs.
And I've got a little bit of a plan for this book, which is going to combine all of those things in something which I believe is going to be rapid, rapid, but that's for another the time, because the book needs to be written and published.
Linsi Brownson 2:04
That is so exciting. And congratulations on being at this place. In that process. I know it takes quite a bit of work to to even get to a place where you can call a draft finished, right?
Matthew Turner 2:18
Yeah, this one has taken longer than ever before, as well, because I started the book just a couple of months after my daughter was born. So my daughter is now 14 months, I've been working on the book, right? Yeah, actually, in terms of, you know, standard research and developing I had the idea for a couple of years. But it just wasn't really the right time with having a little baby girl and so many other things to do.
But I made a promise to myself to just allow this entire process to be rather pressure free to allow the, I suppose the Mojo to come and go because life is so up and down and down, it's very difficult to kind of get into a routine and structure and get a little baby, especially when you've got other things in your way of quiet work, too. So it's been nice, I've been able to take the pressure off, and I've just allowed the first draft to come as it comes. I've been interviewing people for it as well.
So it's a fictional world. But I've built a fictional character, but I'm including real people. And so real world entrepreneurs and authors and partners who inspired me. So on occasion, it's been difficult to track some of those people down. But the first draft is getting close to the finish line, which is exciting. And it's just been an amazing journey. So far, a real pleasure to write.
Linsi Brownson 3:37
That is fantastic. There is so much and what you just said, I'm like, where do we start? I want to dig into this. So okay, so the premise of the book, you said it's a parable. So this is a it's a business focus or an entrepreneur focused book. So there is, I think my understanding of it is like your, as an entrepreneur reading this book, it's sort of a novel. So it's a story that takes you through this fictional world. But it really ultimately is getting entrepreneurs to a place where they're making some decisions for themselves. Right. So this is more of like a business/ self help book, kind of in the nature of a story. Is that right?
Matthew Turner 4:16
Absolutely. One of the things I've noticed over the years, when I speak to people who I consider, quote, unquote, have made further down the line. I asked them what they read, and they tend to tell me they read novels and autobiographies and history, books, philosophy, things of that nature, they very rarely read a typical how to business books, which were ingrained into believing that we need to read. But once you've read a couple dozen of those, you kind of read them all. And what I've found, someone who's written those books, is you can usually distill the majority of what you personally need from about book within just a couple of pages. So as entrepreneurs, we tend to get so busy, so caught up in the hustle and grind of always being on it. But we forget to just take a step back and escape a little bit. One of the greatest ways that any of us can escape is by reading a great novel. And I mean, so many young go get it entrepreneurs who don't read novels. And at this point in time, I feel like how one of those tools lost sight of reading those great stories. So I wanted to write something which gave the entrepreneur out there who's busy and full of ambition and drive permission to read just a good story to read a novel, something that they may not have done for years. But in doing so they're also going to learn some really valuable lessons for them personally, because it's very mindset focused, very mindset centric, but also things that are going to help them grow their business. So it follows a very successful Silicon Valley entrepreneur who's in his mid 20s, only about success, but he reached the point where he starts to question what is success, like, I want to become a billionaire. But why so begins going on this sabbatical, if you will, where he travels and meets amazing people. He's just really curious, he's, he's frustrated, he's confused. He, he doesn't feel like he's on the right path, but he doesn't know what to do. And he starts to unravel, and dive down this personal development, rabbit hole. And then all of the things about how mindset farms and how we find our beliefs, and how the mind body and soul becomes in alignment. And just basically how to form true success for you as a person and from the business and your impact on the world. So it's not a teaching book. As such, you're not going to come away with any self help seven point plan, but my hope is about the book will open, read his eyes and get related and go Okay, yeah, I feel this, I feel this person's pain. I can't live in that. And it gives them permission to escape, hustle, build a life on their terms, and take the next steps. Because once you've been inspired and made aware of something, you need to go and do it, you need to put into work. And that's what will come next through the experience. I've got up my sleeve.
Linsi Brownson 7:18
OH, amen to that. That is amazing. Even just your synopsis of this. I'm like, okay, when do we know pressure, Matthew, but when do we start pre sales?
Matthew Turner 7:31
Well, I promised myself to not think anything in that regards. Until I finished the first draft, I'm going to be potentially publishing this move the traditional means to a publisher and an agent and everything, so I'm going to look it up. But I think there is going to be like a pre sale crowd published kind of campaign towards the back end of 2019. Maybe in September, October time, so I will be sure to keep you in the loop. And maybe you can update the page where this wonderful audio is going to be placed. And yeah, I always liked the idea of doing a bit of a pre sale, it kind of crowd publishing, it gives people who are really excited about the book, a chance to be involved in the journey from the offset. And I don't know I've been part of those kind of journeys be fine, you feel really part of it, you feel part of the story part of a writing process. And I want to give people that opportunity to be part of that. Because once you finish writing the book, The journey just begins. And even when you get to the point of publishing the book, it's often just day one of a new chapter, because you need to promote it and sell it and get it into the hands of the people who need it. So there's a few different layers to it. I like to approach everything I do is like a story centric narrative and a journey, and invite people who wants to be involved on the journey to get involved as much as they want. So I'm really excited about the crowd publishing campaign, which is be determined. But yes, I've promised myself to not think about that until I get the first draft done.
Linsi Brownson 9:06
Makes perfect sense. I love that so much. And this is why I love creatives, because we are, we're so passionate. And we have such a strong desire to create connection. And so even as you're talking about wanting to crowd publish, and bring people into this experience that you're having, of writing the book, and I, to me, that just is so much more meaningful than picking something up off the shelf that's, you know, written by some famous Guru has been on a stage in front of billions of people. And you know, just like that disconnect that distance between like the true source of the inspiration, the source of the creativity. And so I absolutely love this idea of crowd publishing. And you know, and even talking with you right now, like I'm so excited to be talking with you in the process of writing this I that feels really meaningful to me.
Matthew Turner 10:02
Yeah, it's great. And I think is one of the things that sets us apart that when you work with a creative, whatever, writer, musician, artist, whatever. This tends to always be meaning purpose and intention. For everything. Every step has a purpose, every there's layer upon layer upon layer about the bigger picture. So you think about things, you think about how you want to involve people, you think about how you want the story in the book to blend with real life, how there's going to be an extension to the experience, and you want to have intention and purpose. Because every single touch point is an opportunity to bring that creative process to life. So for me, it's a chance to bring that story to life, to bring it into a different medium into a different, you know me and give it new meaning. Whereas someone who is maybe not as creative, they will see a book as a chance to say sell a book, make some money, get more speaking gigs, etc. And it's just a means to an end. But as a creative, it's like, you know, the art is the end. And everything plays a part of that and part of that story. So yeah, I think it's one of the best things about working with creatives and knowing created you know, about everything that they're doing a good little idea in their heads is the old thinking in it over analyzing it, they're trying to piece it together, as part of some bigger, bigger, grander picture is always meaning and always last it's, it's insane, and it drives you insane. It's why somebody created live on that balance between genius and insanity, because it is insanity and Bukit is crazy. Yeah. No other way.
Linsi Brownson 11:48
You have conversations with creatives. And you can literally see the wheels spinning. Like you can feel this person's here with me, they're talking about something but they're also somewhere else right now. Yes, exhausting. It certainly can be absolutely. I love what you said the the art is the end, I think that's a cool quote. And, you know, what you mean by it really, is that when you are a creative, passion driven person, it really is about the process of creating something instead of just the end result. And I think that is it, that becomes something that can be really challenging for creative business owners, creative entrepreneurs, because business is about creating results, businesses about the end game and the tangible achievements, you know, not in entirety. I feel like I should qualify that, because that's not what I preach, but, but really businesses focused on generating something, and delivering it and selling it. and creativity is really based on like, tapping into purpose and tapping into inspiration and continuing on this like ever flowing again, we're evolving journey of of creation. And so navigating the two of those bringing those two together, I think a lot of creative entrepreneurs really do struggle with the like, I they need to make sure that they are ultimately creating something that is tangible, that they can sell that is going to sustain their lifestyle, but also really staying connected to that process the entire way through, does that resonate with you? Does that make sense?
Matthew Turner 13:26
Absolutely. And it's something I've always personally struggled with continue to, I feel like I'm a little bit better than I was, you know, 2345 years ago, it's an ongoing evolution for me. Again, really difficult, because you want you get so precious over the bigger picture, you want to create something of meaning you want to create something impactful. And for a lot of people who aren't may be as creative and them are focused on you know, a business being a business and you know, producing a product. The I suppose the there they see that impacting how many people they can reach with a product as long as it's helping them achieve x,y&z that's great. But my impact is a little bit more, I don't know, nuanced, in a sense, but it's, it's through the farmer words, and there's other elements that come into it. But the impact that I have I feel I can give to people is through my words. So you want to keep intact, the creative ingenuity up at all, but you also have to be really conscious of providing a physical, literal impact for them so they can go away and better themselves. And in doing so, so that they can provide you a literal, tangible impact. In other words, money. So you can live your life so you can live a lifestyle. So you can reinvest that back into it and continue to feel it. So it's a real difficult thing to balance. It's real difficult to get your head around. Yes, hot. It is.
Linsi Brownson 14:58
Yeah, absolutely. So what are Do you have any specific ways, and actually, this leads us into I want to talk about like how you maintain that level of inspiration, creativity, you know, long game process, all the things that we just said, I want to hear about that. But do what comes to mind for you as techniques or ways that you keep yourself balanced and focused and moving forward. And that? Well,
Matthew Turner 15:29
I suppose to begin with, it helps to have a very clear vision of what you envision things to look like further down the line. So whatever you want to call it, your version of success, a particular goal, but something that is a little bit more grander in scope. So it's further down the line. And I always look at goal setting as you can have the thing which is like 3, 5, 10 years and time outside the vision, you have something that's going to be in the next year. That's, that's the kind of goal.
And then you can can split your life up into 90 day chunks where it's more tactical. And I think from a creative point of view, you as long as you've got that long term, clear picture of where you want to go. It can just keep that Mojo going because you're like I'm doing certain things now, a means to get to my end. So for instance, my long term vision is not to always have client work. I enjoy ghostwriting. I enjoy working with clients, I enjoy it, the way that I'm able to help them and the impact that I can have. But I'm always thinking this is a way for me to better myself to provide security and, and money for my family for me to learn and continue to hone my craft and work on different projects. But my end vision is I want to be someone who just simply writes books. And I want to have a business that produces things other than books and programs and experiences. But I want to build a team that empowers me just work focus on my creative engineering, which I love things which is live and breathe, aka writing. So that kind of continues to build and, like, to get that I need to focus on the next 90 days. I need to be clear where I need to be in two years time. So at the minute, my life is very much split in two where I'm constantly thinking about where I need to go from a client perspective so I can work with amazing people who are going to make me a better writer. So I'm able to bring in the money that allows me to invest into my writing and support my family. And then on the flip side, I've got my personal projects. So the minute like the next 90 days is me very much focused on getting this first draft finished. I know in the next year that's going to translate into I'm doing other things which go beyond the writing scope. For instance, this crowd publishing campaign, the publishing potential working with traditional publishers, and agents, and all these other pieces, but they're all clicking together and allowing me to get step by step closer to my grand vision. So that kind of helps me keep my mojo because there are troughs for hard times, there are tough times for a long time. This last year for me, it's been a whirlwind roller coaster by being a father again, and balancing things client work. But life at home kids sleepless nights, it's been hard. And there's been some serious periods where I've had to take a step back from the writing a little bit because my mojo has been gone. But I've always got that vision, I've always got a clear vision of like, and this is what I'm aiming for. Because I want to live that kind of I feel, that's how I'm going to bring the best out of me as a creator. That's how I'm going to be able to impact my audience the most like I feel I can can provide a good impact to my audience through programs and experiences and speaking stuff. But I also know, if I want to impact them in the best possible way, I would need to collaborate with people I would need empower a team to do what they do best. So I can do what I do best, which is write a box. Does that make sense? Because I can get off on a bit of a tangent.
Linsi Brownson 19:08
So good. Yes, I love that. So here's the thing that comes to mind for me is like I love hearing someone that is so creative, and truly writing can be somewhat of an excruciating, creative process. Oh, yeah, it really can. And so to hear, it's almost like you're taking the the fundamentals of business planning. So having that long term vision, having your, you know, shorter term vision goals, and then having your specific focus. Like some people call them sprints, there's a lot of language around what it means to set big goals and to set all the small goals to get there. And I think that ultimately, really often turns creative people off like thinking about business and that way are thinking about their goals in that way. Because it does feel like it takes the the fluid, the inspiration, the like, you know what it feels like to be inspired. And when you're inspired by something, you get an idea. It's like go time, right? You can't just write down an idea and then come back to it with the same level of momentum and excitement as that you had in that moment. And so there is I think, a lot of fear for creatives around goal setting and planning, because it's like, well, I don't know how I'm going to feel in the day. And so I really love how you break it down into what it looks like for you. And how you kind of tap back into the bigger vision as the like, the way to reignite the spark, I guess in the moment, like, okay, but 90 days, the next 90 days is what really matters for this. And so where am I going to go? Knowing that?
Matthew Turner 20:48
Yeah, look like life is a series of books, it's a series of stories. So if you look at your current book, be in the next five years, okay? You don't necessarily know where you want the book to end, you don't have all the details, all the specifics, but it's okay to dream from, like, you know, 3567 years from now, like, this is what I want my life to look like, you know, maybe at the moment, you're single, but in five years time you like the idea of being in a relationship with maybe a family on the way you like the idea of having a house in the county and you don't know who it's going to be with, you don't know where the house is going to be. But you've got a vision to where it's going to be. And that's like the book. Now, there's a series of chapters, which are going to get you from where you are now until the end of that book. So I look at the you know, about next chapter or the next section in the book being a year from now. Okay, well, where would I like to be, you know, maybe it's in a relationship, maybe it's got the car got the house. And then it's coming back to like, Okay, this chapter is the next 90 days, like, what do I need to do to make that happen, because if you want to be in a relationship at the Yeah, so you can be married in the five, then you need to be on dating apps right now you need to be going on dates, you need to at least be open to the idea of being in a relationship. If you're just spending every single day in your house, not me and anybody not on dating apps, like you're not going to be in a relationship. So honestly, I don't think it matters, whether you're looking at like your love life, your life as a whole your business, a particular project, whether you're a creative or not. Five years, one year, 90 days is a pretty decent goal of fun to live by the 90 days is like in the doing this is the stuff I need to do. Now, if I ever going to achieve the stuff I want to about five years from now, that's kind of like the sometimes the best the compass, which is driving me toward is giving me something to aim towards. And during those tough periods, which will happen during those days where you just feel rubbish, which will happen. You can just take a deep breath and calm down, we're in this together.
Linsi Brownson 23:02
I love it. That is such a beautiful analogy. And it's the perfect way you're obviously such a writer perfectly to describe it. Matthew, thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to hear all this with you. I'm so excited to see how the book progresses in its very organic, natural way, please do keep us posted on when you're going to crowd publish and get that stuff rolling, absolutely want to make sure that I share it with people because I know a lot of people are really resonating with that story of the entrepreneur and the passion and the y and their version of success. So this is going to be really great. I'm so excited. Please tell us where we can connect with you online and
Unknown Speaker 23:47
and stay in touch.
Matthew Turner 23:50
Well, first of all, it's been an absolute pleasure. Linsi. So thank you so much. And yeah, well you can find me@ten.com that's my so the main sites that you want to look at my books and, and you know, just whatever I'm kind of got going on. sure to check that out. You can also go to turn, turn doc.co forward slash guest. And on there, you will be able to get a link to the book and get a read the sample chapter to see whether it's the sort of parable which will hopefully impact your life in a positive way. And also on there are links to my Facebook profile, and Instagram, which is where I share a lot of my sort of daily journey. I've been showing a lot of like little snippets from a book recently on Instagram and Facebook. And whenever I start to share content and articles, they begin live from those platforms, and then end up as an article somewhere on the web. So yeah, that's the best way to keep in touch. And please, if you do, like, be sure to say hey, and by you found me via Lindsay, I always love to speak to people and build new connections.
Linsi Brownson 24:58
Fabulous. Hey, so turn dog co forward slash guest and I will definitely link that up in all of our show notes as well. That's so exciting. And just sidebar, I love that you start the articles that you write and the pieces that you dig into further by conversations on social media. I think that's such an important valuable way to really get connected with people and to really see what people are looking for and, and talking about. And that's a really cool, really cool approach to this.
Matthew Turner 25:29
So thank you. Absolutely. It's all about just engaging. I'm just getting, getting your sort of titular thought process out there for me all the time. It's writing sometimes video, people, it's audio, but you've got ideas, and the longer you keep them in your head. The you know, given you know doing any one is service. So yeah, be sure to share and share a lot.
Linsi Brownson 25:52
Love it. Thank you so much, Matthew.
Matthew Turner 25:55
Thank you